DNA Ancestry Tests: Simultaneously Powerful and Limited
Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 2)
Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 1)
Traveling DNA
Those Marvelous Mitochondria
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a common DNA ancestry test, President Obama would be 100% Caucasian.","credit":null,"description":null,"imgSizes":{"thumbnail":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-400x224.jpg","width":400,"height":224,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"guest-author-32":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-32x32.jpg","width":32,"height":32,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"guest-author-64":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-64x64.jpg","width":64,"height":64,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"guest-author-96":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-96x96.jpg","width":96,"height":96,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"guest-author-128":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-128x128.jpg","width":128,"height":128,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"detail":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-75x75.jpg","width":75,"height":75,"mimeType":"image/jpeg"},"kqedFullSize":{"file":"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama.jpg","width":640,"height":358}},"fetchFailed":false,"isLoading":false}},"audioPlayerReducer":{"postId":"stream_live"},"authorsReducer":{"dr-barry-starr":{"type":"authors","id":"6177","meta":{"index":"authors_1591205172","id":"6177","found":true},"name":"Dr. Barry Starr","firstName":"Dr. Barry","lastName":"Starr","slug":"dr-barry-starr","email":"bstarr@thetech.org","display_author_email":false,"staff_mastheads":[],"title":null,"bio":"Dr. Barry Starr (\u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/geneticsboy\">@geneticsboy\u003c/a>) is a Geneticist-in-Residence at The Tech Museum of Innovation in San Jose, CA and runs their Stanford at The Tech program. The program is part of an ongoing collaboration between the \u003ca href=\"http://genetics.stanford.edu/\">Stanford Department of Genetics\u003c/a> and \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/\">The Tech Museum of Innovation\u003c/a>. Together these two partners created the \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/exhibits/permanent/index.php?sGalKey=gtwt&galKey=lt\">Genetics: Technology with a Twist\u003c/a> exhibition.\r\n\r\nYou can also see \u003ca href=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/science/author/dr-barry-starr/\">additional posts by Barry at KQED Science\u003c/a>, and read his \u003ca href=\"http://science.kqed.org/quest/author/dr-barry-starr/\">previous contributions\u003c/a> to \u003ca href=\"http://science.kqed.org/quest/\">QUEST\u003c/a>, a project dedicated to exploring the Science of Sustainability.","avatar":"https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4a5680e4c642ea0f0f3041af16018969?s=600&d=blank&r=g","twitter":"geneticsboy","facebook":null,"instagram":null,"linkedin":null,"sites":[{"site":"science","roles":["author"]},{"site":"quest","roles":["subscriber"]}],"headData":{"title":"Dr. Barry Starr | 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FM","link":"/"}},"quest_51966":{"type":"posts","id":"quest_51966","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"quest","id":"51966","score":null,"sort":[1365433221000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited","title":"DNA Ancestry Tests: Simultaneously Powerful and Limited","publishDate":1365433221,"format":"aside","headTitle":"QUEST | KQED Science","labelTerm":{},"content":"\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_51967\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2013/04/08/dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited/obama/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-51967\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama.jpg\" alt=\"Using a common DNA ancestry test, President Obama would be 100% Caucasian.\" width=\"640\" height=\"358\" class=\"size-full wp-image-51967\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-400x224.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Using a common DNA ancestry test, President Obama would be 100% Caucasian.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Sometimes genetic tests aren’t as useful as you think they will be. For example, if President Obama were to take a common ancestry DNA test, it would almost certainly come back as 100% Caucasian. Useful, huh?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This sort of test, a mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) test, can look into the deep past but it can only see mom’s side of the family. And it isn’t even really that powerful. It not only ignores dad’s side of the family, but in reality it can only see a sliver of mom’s as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So with this test you can see your mom and her mom and her mom’s mom and so on. You can also see your mom’s sister and her kids and your grandma’s sister and her kids. What you won’t see, though, is your mom’s brother’s kids or your grandma’s brother’s kids or any male relative’s on your mom’s side of the family. It really only follows back a direct, specific maternal line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is why President Obama would look Caucasian in this test...because his mom is Caucasian. Now of course with a little knowledge about these sorts of tests, President Obama wouldn’t be surprised. But not everyone knows they have a relative on their direct maternal line who is of a different ethnic group. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I know of a case where a self-identified African-American woman had a mtDNA test done to try to determine what part of Africa her ancestors came from. Apparently they came from Europe; her test came back 100% Caucasian. This is despite the fact that all her living relatives were African-American and no one can remember any relatives who were Caucasian. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As this result shows, we don’t have to come up with an explanation like President Obama’s—it doesn’t have to be that her mom was Caucasian. Because of how these tests work, the DNA from this test could have come from a woman five, ten or even fifty generations back. Mitochondrial DNA passes from mother to child virtually unchanged, generation after generation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What this means is that there is no dilution of mtDNA as the generations pass. Mom’s mtDNA is pretty much the same as grandma’s which is pretty much the same as great grandma’s and so on. This DNA doesn’t dilute over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here is one way to show what might have happened to this woman’s DNA over the generations:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2013/04/08/dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited/mtdnaft3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-51970\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/mtDNAft3.jpg\" alt=\"mtDNAft3\" width=\"400\" height=\"281\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-51970\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the diagram, circles are women and squares are men. Also, white means Caucasian and black means African.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the left, we are following the mtDNA of the tested woman and on the right we are following the rest of her DNA. She is the circle at the bottom of the family tree on each side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What you can see on the right is that over the generations, the original Caucasian DNA is being diluted out. It goes from 50% to 25% to 12.5% and so on as you’d expect. The same isn’t true for the mtDNA on the left. It stays Caucasian generation after generation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So if we look at most of her DNA, she looks African-American. We may not even see that sliver of Caucasian! But her mtDNA is 100% Caucasian. No wonder she was confused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obviously she can’t find out what part of Africa her ancestors came from with this test. But let’s say she got a more typical result and her mtDNA could be traced back to some part of Africa. What does that result really mean?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the result here shows, it may not mean as much as she hopes. Imagine the previous scenario but instead of being Caucasian, the woman from five or ten generations ago came from a different part of Africa than the rest of her relatives. She would come away thinking her relatives were from one part of Africa when most of them were really from another. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She would not get the answer she was looking for but there is no way for her to know she got the “wrong” answer. She would simply go on believing she was from a part of Africa she really wasn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unfortunately, there really isn’t a better DNA test for looking back in time. The most useful tests, the autosomal ones that look at all our DNA, can only go back four or five generations before becoming \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2007/12/10/doing-the-recombination-shuffle/\">hopelessly jumbled\u003c/a>. For most African-Americans, this isn’t far enough back to find their African ancestors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The other kind of test, the Y chromosome test, can go as far back along the paternal line as the mtDNA test can along the maternal line but it suffers from the same problems. In fact, a surprising number (\u003ca href=\"http://www.africanancestry.com/patriclan.html\">35%?\u003c/a>) of African-American men actually have Caucasian Y chromosomes (well, given plantation life, maybe not so surprising). None of these men will learn anything about their African heritage with this test. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the bottom line is don’t put too much faith into DNA testing alone. It is kind of fun to trace back your history this way but you are really only following one strand of your ancestral web back in time. The rest of the web is invisible to DNA testing. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course mtDNA tests have been incredibly useful scientifically. They’ve let us \u003ca href=\"http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask386\">trace human migration\u003c/a> as we spread out of Africa and even trace all of our lines back to a single woman, \u003ca href=\"http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/y-adam-and-mitochondrial-eve\">Mitochondrial Eve\u003c/a>. Recently these tests were even used to confirm that a skeleton found under a parking garage in England \u003ca href=\"http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/richard-iii\">belonged to King Richard III\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just don’t count on mtDNA tests giving you a broad understanding of your own family history. They won’t.\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Don’t count on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) ancestry tests giving you a broad understanding of your own family history. They won’t.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1442789141,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":23,"wordCount":1024},"headData":{"title":"DNA Ancestry Tests: Simultaneously Powerful and Limited | KQED","description":"Don’t count on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) ancestry tests giving you a broad understanding of your own family history. They won’t.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"DNA Ancestry Tests: Simultaneously Powerful and Limited","datePublished":"2013-04-08T15:00:21.000Z","dateModified":"2015-09-20T22:45:41.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"51966 http://science.kqed.org/quest/?p=51966","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2013/04/08/dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited/","disqusTitle":"DNA Ancestry Tests: Simultaneously Powerful and Limited","source":"Biology","sourceUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/quest/category/biology/","path":"/quest/51966/dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cfigure id=\"attachment_51967\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\" style=\"max-width: 640px\">\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2013/04/08/dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited/obama/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-51967\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama.jpg\" alt=\"Using a common DNA ancestry test, President Obama would be 100% Caucasian.\" width=\"640\" height=\"358\" class=\"size-full wp-image-51967\" srcset=\"https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama.jpg 640w, https://ww2.kqed.org/app/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/Obama-400x224.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\">\u003c/a>\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">Using a common DNA ancestry test, President Obama would be 100% Caucasian.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Sometimes genetic tests aren’t as useful as you think they will be. For example, if President Obama were to take a common ancestry DNA test, it would almost certainly come back as 100% Caucasian. Useful, huh?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This sort of test, a mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) test, can look into the deep past but it can only see mom’s side of the family. And it isn’t even really that powerful. It not only ignores dad’s side of the family, but in reality it can only see a sliver of mom’s as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So with this test you can see your mom and her mom and her mom’s mom and so on. You can also see your mom’s sister and her kids and your grandma’s sister and her kids. What you won’t see, though, is your mom’s brother’s kids or your grandma’s brother’s kids or any male relative’s on your mom’s side of the family. It really only follows back a direct, specific maternal line.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is why President Obama would look Caucasian in this test...because his mom is Caucasian. Now of course with a little knowledge about these sorts of tests, President Obama wouldn’t be surprised. But not everyone knows they have a relative on their direct maternal line who is of a different ethnic group. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I know of a case where a self-identified African-American woman had a mtDNA test done to try to determine what part of Africa her ancestors came from. Apparently they came from Europe; her test came back 100% Caucasian. This is despite the fact that all her living relatives were African-American and no one can remember any relatives who were Caucasian. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As this result shows, we don’t have to come up with an explanation like President Obama’s—it doesn’t have to be that her mom was Caucasian. Because of how these tests work, the DNA from this test could have come from a woman five, ten or even fifty generations back. Mitochondrial DNA passes from mother to child virtually unchanged, generation after generation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What this means is that there is no dilution of mtDNA as the generations pass. Mom’s mtDNA is pretty much the same as grandma’s which is pretty much the same as great grandma’s and so on. This DNA doesn’t dilute over time.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here is one way to show what might have happened to this woman’s DNA over the generations:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2013/04/08/dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited/mtdnaft3/\" rel=\"attachment wp-att-51970\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2013/04/mtDNAft3.jpg\" alt=\"mtDNAft3\" width=\"400\" height=\"281\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-51970\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In the diagram, circles are women and squares are men. Also, white means Caucasian and black means African.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>On the left, we are following the mtDNA of the tested woman and on the right we are following the rest of her DNA. She is the circle at the bottom of the family tree on each side.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>What you can see on the right is that over the generations, the original Caucasian DNA is being diluted out. It goes from 50% to 25% to 12.5% and so on as you’d expect. The same isn’t true for the mtDNA on the left. It stays Caucasian generation after generation.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So if we look at most of her DNA, she looks African-American. We may not even see that sliver of Caucasian! But her mtDNA is 100% Caucasian. No wonder she was confused.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Obviously she can’t find out what part of Africa her ancestors came from with this test. But let’s say she got a more typical result and her mtDNA could be traced back to some part of Africa. What does that result really mean?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>As the result here shows, it may not mean as much as she hopes. Imagine the previous scenario but instead of being Caucasian, the woman from five or ten generations ago came from a different part of Africa than the rest of her relatives. She would come away thinking her relatives were from one part of Africa when most of them were really from another. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>She would not get the answer she was looking for but there is no way for her to know she got the “wrong” answer. She would simply go on believing she was from a part of Africa she really wasn’t.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Unfortunately, there really isn’t a better DNA test for looking back in time. The most useful tests, the autosomal ones that look at all our DNA, can only go back four or five generations before becoming \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2007/12/10/doing-the-recombination-shuffle/\">hopelessly jumbled\u003c/a>. For most African-Americans, this isn’t far enough back to find their African ancestors.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The other kind of test, the Y chromosome test, can go as far back along the paternal line as the mtDNA test can along the maternal line but it suffers from the same problems. In fact, a surprising number (\u003ca href=\"http://www.africanancestry.com/patriclan.html\">35%?\u003c/a>) of African-American men actually have Caucasian Y chromosomes (well, given plantation life, maybe not so surprising). None of these men will learn anything about their African heritage with this test. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the bottom line is don’t put too much faith into DNA testing alone. It is kind of fun to trace back your history this way but you are really only following one strand of your ancestral web back in time. The rest of the web is invisible to DNA testing. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course mtDNA tests have been incredibly useful scientifically. They’ve let us \u003ca href=\"http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask386\">trace human migration\u003c/a> as we spread out of Africa and even trace all of our lines back to a single woman, \u003ca href=\"http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/y-adam-and-mitochondrial-eve\">Mitochondrial Eve\u003c/a>. Recently these tests were even used to confirm that a skeleton found under a parking garage in England \u003ca href=\"http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/richard-iii\">belonged to King Richard III\u003c/a>. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Just don’t count on mtDNA tests giving you a broad understanding of your own family history. They won’t.\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/quest/51966/dna-ancestry-tests-simultaneously-powerful-and-limited","authors":["6177"],"categories":["quest_4"],"tags":["quest_11873","quest_11872","quest_11194","quest_11871","quest_1890","quest_3319"],"featImg":"quest_51967","label":"source_quest_51966"},"quest_3737":{"type":"posts","id":"quest_3737","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"quest","id":"3737","score":null,"sort":[1254172690000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-2","title":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 2)","publishDate":1254172690,"format":"standard","headTitle":"QUEST | KQED Science","labelTerm":{"site":"quest"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"left\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/SamBelleStarr.jpg\">\u003cem>Are they related to me? I still don't know...\u003c/em>\u003c/span>When last I left you, I was searching for my great-great grandmother’s DNA in my own DNA. Remember, legend has it she was Cherokee and I wanted to confirm the legend with a genetic test from a company called 23andMe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/09/14/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-1/\">In my last blog post\u003c/a>, I showed how the two most powerful ancestry tests, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome, were useless to me in my hunt. Now I want look at the rest of my DNA. So here we go!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Y chromosome and mtDNA are a small fraction of my DNA—something like 0.8% of the total DNA in one of my cells. But they are incredibly useful because they change very little from generation to generation. The mtDNA I got from my mom is probably exactly like hers. Same with most of the Y I got from my dad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The other 99.2% of my DNA is a lot trickier to look at from an ancestry perspective because it has changed a lot from generation to generation over time. For example, the chromosomes I inherited from my parents are not the same as the ones they have. I got a \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/08/03/why-we-will-never-see-another-einstein/\">mix of their chromosomes\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, my mom had two copies of chromosome 1 (and two copies of her other 22 chromosomes too). As you know, she passed one chromosome 1 to me (my dad gave me my other one). But, through a process called recombination, her two copies of chromosome 1 swapped DNA so that I got a hybrid of her two copies. I inherited a unique chromosome never before seen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is all well and good from a survival of the species point of view, but it is a problem for ancestry testing. Imagine that instead of my mom, we look at my Cherokee great-great grandmother. She has just had a child who inherited a mix of her chromosome 1’s. This chromosome will look Native American and the child would appear half Native American.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Actually, the test isn’t perfect yet and so there isn’t yet a “Native American” set \u003cem>per se\u003c/em>. Instead, here is how 23andMe describes Native American DNA in their tests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>“…people who identify themselves as Native American exhibit fairly consistent Ancestry Painting proportions of about 75% Asian and 25% European, plus or minus 10%.” \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This means the chromosomes the child got from his or her mom won’t look Native American but instead will look 75% Asian and 25% European. (See \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=41\">a realted post of mine elsewhere\u003c/a> for why it looks like this.) Now imagine that this half Native American child grows up and has my grandfather as his or her son.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My grandpa will inherit a mix of his parents’ DNA too. In this case the Native American DNA will mix with the European DNA to create a hybrid. On average, you would now see something along the lines of 37.5% Asian (this is a simplification but it gets us into the ballpark of the number we might expect).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Each generation would see, on average, a continued dilution of this Asian part. My dad would have 18% Asian, I would have 9%, etc. Here are my ancestry results (click the image to enlarge):\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/AncestryPainting.jpg\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/AncestryPainting.jpg\" alt=\"AncestryPainting\" title=\"AncestryPainting\" width=\"600\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-3738\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not a hint of Asian. Looks like my great-great grandma wasn't Cherokee. Or was she?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are lots of ways she could still be Cherokee. First off, I don’t know how solid the 75% number is for all Native Americans. I don’t know how many Native Americans are in their database. I also don’t know how much variation there will be tribe to tribe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Secondly, you may have noticed that I was very careful to always say, “on average.” This is because the recombinations don’t have to be a 50-50 swap. It is true that if you look at a large number of recombination events, the average will be 50%. But individual recombination events can be biased towards one or more chromosomes. Occasionally you’ll get mostly one chromosome and sometimes mostly the other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sort of like flipping a coin—do it enough and you’ll get pretty close to half heads and half tails. But if you flip a coin twice, you might get one head and one tail. And you might not. Half the time you’ll get two heads or two tails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is less a problem than you might think with our chromosomes since the recombination is spread over 23 pairs with each pair being independent of the others. But it can still throw a monkey wrench into the works. 23andMe actually has a nice chart that hints at this by giving the most likely range of possibilities. Unfortunately, this chart didn’t come up with my results and I had to stumble on it while I was playing around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Using the chart, I can see that the bottom end of my expected results in 0.24% “Native American” (if I am reading the chart correctly). That is pretty low and it seems like a pretty minor mistaken assumption at the beginning might knock this down to zero.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So where am I after this? Still in the dark. This is actually how many genetic tests end up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The positive result tells you a lot. Had there been Native American DNA, that would have been a slam dunk. (This isn’t always the case with genetic tests but it would be here.) But there wasn’t. Which means, given that I was on the edge of detection, that she may or may not have been Cherokee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, this isn’t 23andMe’s fault. The test itself couldn’t be conclusive given how far back we need to go and the DNA tests that 23andMe offers. In fact, 23andMe does an excellent job of presenting the data. There are pretty chromosome paintings, graphs superimposed on world maps, etc. All very nice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am still worried that the explanations that go along with these images assume an awful lot of knowledge that most people might not have. Without that knowledge, it can be hard to assess the significance of a certain result. Next blog that’ll become even more important as I tackle health conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad floatright]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> 37.33161018170129 -121.89019918441772\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"In my last blog post, I showed how the two most powerful ancestry tests, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome, were useless to me in my hunt. Now I want look at the rest of my DNA. So here we go!","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1316920939,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":25,"wordCount":1139},"headData":{"title":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 2) | KQED","description":"In my last blog post, I showed how the two most powerful ancestry tests, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome, were useless to me in my hunt. Now I want look at the rest of my DNA. So here we go!","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 2)","datePublished":"2009-09-28T21:18:10.000Z","dateModified":"2011-09-25T03:22:19.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"3737 http://www.kqed.org/quest/blog/?p=3737","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/09/28/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-2/","disqusTitle":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 2)","path":"/quest/3737/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-2","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"left\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/SamBelleStarr.jpg\">\u003cem>Are they related to me? I still don't know...\u003c/em>\u003c/span>When last I left you, I was searching for my great-great grandmother’s DNA in my own DNA. Remember, legend has it she was Cherokee and I wanted to confirm the legend with a genetic test from a company called 23andMe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/09/14/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-1/\">In my last blog post\u003c/a>, I showed how the two most powerful ancestry tests, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome, were useless to me in my hunt. Now I want look at the rest of my DNA. So here we go!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Y chromosome and mtDNA are a small fraction of my DNA—something like 0.8% of the total DNA in one of my cells. But they are incredibly useful because they change very little from generation to generation. The mtDNA I got from my mom is probably exactly like hers. Same with most of the Y I got from my dad.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The other 99.2% of my DNA is a lot trickier to look at from an ancestry perspective because it has changed a lot from generation to generation over time. For example, the chromosomes I inherited from my parents are not the same as the ones they have. I got a \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/08/03/why-we-will-never-see-another-einstein/\">mix of their chromosomes\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>For example, my mom had two copies of chromosome 1 (and two copies of her other 22 chromosomes too). As you know, she passed one chromosome 1 to me (my dad gave me my other one). But, through a process called recombination, her two copies of chromosome 1 swapped DNA so that I got a hybrid of her two copies. I inherited a unique chromosome never before seen.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is all well and good from a survival of the species point of view, but it is a problem for ancestry testing. Imagine that instead of my mom, we look at my Cherokee great-great grandmother. She has just had a child who inherited a mix of her chromosome 1’s. This chromosome will look Native American and the child would appear half Native American.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Actually, the test isn’t perfect yet and so there isn’t yet a “Native American” set \u003cem>per se\u003c/em>. Instead, here is how 23andMe describes Native American DNA in their tests:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cem>“…people who identify themselves as Native American exhibit fairly consistent Ancestry Painting proportions of about 75% Asian and 25% European, plus or minus 10%.” \u003c/em>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This means the chromosomes the child got from his or her mom won’t look Native American but instead will look 75% Asian and 25% European. (See \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=41\">a realted post of mine elsewhere\u003c/a> for why it looks like this.) Now imagine that this half Native American child grows up and has my grandfather as his or her son.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>My grandpa will inherit a mix of his parents’ DNA too. In this case the Native American DNA will mix with the European DNA to create a hybrid. On average, you would now see something along the lines of 37.5% Asian (this is a simplification but it gets us into the ballpark of the number we might expect).\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Each generation would see, on average, a continued dilution of this Asian part. My dad would have 18% Asian, I would have 9%, etc. Here are my ancestry results (click the image to enlarge):\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/AncestryPainting.jpg\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/AncestryPainting.jpg\" alt=\"AncestryPainting\" title=\"AncestryPainting\" width=\"600\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-3738\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Not a hint of Asian. Looks like my great-great grandma wasn't Cherokee. Or was she?\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>There are lots of ways she could still be Cherokee. First off, I don’t know how solid the 75% number is for all Native Americans. I don’t know how many Native Americans are in their database. I also don’t know how much variation there will be tribe to tribe.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Secondly, you may have noticed that I was very careful to always say, “on average.” This is because the recombinations don’t have to be a 50-50 swap. It is true that if you look at a large number of recombination events, the average will be 50%. But individual recombination events can be biased towards one or more chromosomes. Occasionally you’ll get mostly one chromosome and sometimes mostly the other.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Sort of like flipping a coin—do it enough and you’ll get pretty close to half heads and half tails. But if you flip a coin twice, you might get one head and one tail. And you might not. Half the time you’ll get two heads or two tails.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This is less a problem than you might think with our chromosomes since the recombination is spread over 23 pairs with each pair being independent of the others. But it can still throw a monkey wrench into the works. 23andMe actually has a nice chart that hints at this by giving the most likely range of possibilities. Unfortunately, this chart didn’t come up with my results and I had to stumble on it while I was playing around.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Using the chart, I can see that the bottom end of my expected results in 0.24% “Native American” (if I am reading the chart correctly). That is pretty low and it seems like a pretty minor mistaken assumption at the beginning might knock this down to zero.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So where am I after this? Still in the dark. This is actually how many genetic tests end up.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The positive result tells you a lot. Had there been Native American DNA, that would have been a slam dunk. (This isn’t always the case with genetic tests but it would be here.) But there wasn’t. Which means, given that I was on the edge of detection, that she may or may not have been Cherokee.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Now, this isn’t 23andMe’s fault. The test itself couldn’t be conclusive given how far back we need to go and the DNA tests that 23andMe offers. In fact, 23andMe does an excellent job of presenting the data. There are pretty chromosome paintings, graphs superimposed on world maps, etc. All very nice.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I am still worried that the explanations that go along with these images assume an awful lot of knowledge that most people might not have. Without that knowledge, it can be hard to assess the significance of a certain result. Next blog that’ll become even more important as I tackle health conditions.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"floatright"},"numeric":["floatright"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> 37.33161018170129 -121.89019918441772\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/quest/3737/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-2","authors":["6177"],"categories":["quest_4","quest_12"],"tags":["quest_43","quest_159","quest_563","quest_848","quest_1192","quest_1197","quest_1844","quest_1890","quest_2383","quest_3195"],"label":"quest"},"quest_3620":{"type":"posts","id":"quest_3620","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"quest","id":"3620","score":null,"sort":[1252948244000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-1","title":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 1)","publishDate":1252948244,"format":"standard","headTitle":"QUEST | KQED Science","labelTerm":{"site":"quest"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"left\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/23andMe-web.jpg\">\u003cem>Genetic tests often don’t give as much information as you might think.\u003c/em>\u003c/span>In a previous blog I talked about \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/07/20/taking-the-plunge-diving-into-my-dna/\">getting my DNA tested with 23andMe\u003c/a>. Well, I got the email the other day saying that my results were ready. So I logged on and up popped this screen pictured to the left.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All sorts of goodies to try out! I feel like a kid at Christmas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first thing I thought I’d do is check out my ancestry. My grandfather’s grandmother was supposedly Native American and so I wanted to find out if I could see that in my DNA. (This relates to my supposed relationship with the outlaw Sam Starr but that is a different story.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.23andme.com\">23andMe\u003c/a> has this Native American testing app in their 23andMe Labs section. I clicked on my data and up popped this result:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Recent Native American ancestry is unlikely\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Has it all been lies? My great, great grandma wasn’t Native American? Not so fast...\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A “no” answer on a genetics test doesn’t necessarily tell you a lot. (And sometimes, the “yes” answer isn’t so helpful either!) Now as a geneticist, I know the drawbacks of ancestry tests like these. What I wanted to see was if 23andMe did a good job of explaining them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I first checked out my \u003ca href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA\">mitochondrial\u003c/a> DNA (mtDNA) and my Y chromosome data. These DNA don’t change a lot from generation to generation and so are really good at tracing ancestry many generations back. Their downside for me is how they are passed down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Y chromosome passes from father to sons. My great, great grandma didn’t have a Y to pass on so of course my Y chromosome data wouldn’t show that she was Native American.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>mtDNA passes from mom to her children. At first this sounds promising since we are talking about my great, great grandma until we realize that I am related to this woman through my grandfather. His mtDNA died with him (except for his female relatives and their descendants) so that is lost to me as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here is what 23andMe has written under interpretation of my mtDNA and Y chromosome results:\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>This mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is inconsistent with Native American ancestry along the maternal (mother's mother's mother's ...) line. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>This Y chromosome haplogroup is inconsistent with Native American ancestry along the paternal (father's father's father's ...) line.\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I suppose this says what I just said but I am not sure how many people would really appreciate the limitations of mtDNA and Y chromosome data from this explanation. There wasn’t a link to a more explicit discussion of the limitations of this sort of testing and there wasn’t anything I could see from a quick glance at the ancestry part of the site either. An explicit explanation would be good or maybe a figure like this one:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gene-tree.jpg\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/gene-tree.jpg\" alt=\"gene-tree\" title=\"gene-tree\" width=\"400\" height=\"150\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-3621\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To me, this drives home the point that there is a whole lot of missing ancestry. It might help if they had some sort of family tree app where you could indicate as much as you know about family relationships. Once you’ve inputted the data, it would spit out what tests results would be useful to look at.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the mtDNA and Y chromosome test results are of little use to me in this quest. (And of little use to me in general as it confirms my pasty whiteness.) Next blog I’ll deal with the rest of my DNA and what that can and can’t tell me about my great, great grandma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> 37.33161018170129 -121.89019918441772\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"Genetic tests often don’t give as much information as you might think.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1316920901,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":18,"wordCount":649},"headData":{"title":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 1) | KQED","description":"Genetic tests often don’t give as much information as you might think.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 1)","datePublished":"2009-09-14T17:10:44.000Z","dateModified":"2011-09-25T03:21:41.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"3620 http://www.kqed.org/quest/blog/?p=3620","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/09/14/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-1/","disqusTitle":"Genetic Tests: When No Means Maybe (Part 1)","path":"/quest/3620/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-1","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"left\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/23andMe-web.jpg\">\u003cem>Genetic tests often don’t give as much information as you might think.\u003c/em>\u003c/span>In a previous blog I talked about \u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/07/20/taking-the-plunge-diving-into-my-dna/\">getting my DNA tested with 23andMe\u003c/a>. Well, I got the email the other day saying that my results were ready. So I logged on and up popped this screen pictured to the left.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>All sorts of goodies to try out! I feel like a kid at Christmas.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The first thing I thought I’d do is check out my ancestry. My grandfather’s grandmother was supposedly Native American and so I wanted to find out if I could see that in my DNA. (This relates to my supposed relationship with the outlaw Sam Starr but that is a different story.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://www.23andme.com\">23andMe\u003c/a> has this Native American testing app in their 23andMe Labs section. I clicked on my data and up popped this result:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003cstrong>\u003cem>Recent Native American ancestry is unlikely\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Has it all been lies? My great, great grandma wasn’t Native American? Not so fast...\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A “no” answer on a genetics test doesn’t necessarily tell you a lot. (And sometimes, the “yes” answer isn’t so helpful either!) Now as a geneticist, I know the drawbacks of ancestry tests like these. What I wanted to see was if 23andMe did a good job of explaining them.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I first checked out my \u003ca href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_DNA\">mitochondrial\u003c/a> DNA (mtDNA) and my Y chromosome data. These DNA don’t change a lot from generation to generation and so are really good at tracing ancestry many generations back. Their downside for me is how they are passed down.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The Y chromosome passes from father to sons. My great, great grandma didn’t have a Y to pass on so of course my Y chromosome data wouldn’t show that she was Native American.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>mtDNA passes from mom to her children. At first this sounds promising since we are talking about my great, great grandma until we realize that I am related to this woman through my grandfather. His mtDNA died with him (except for his female relatives and their descendants) so that is lost to me as well.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Here is what 23andMe has written under interpretation of my mtDNA and Y chromosome results:\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>This mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is inconsistent with Native American ancestry along the maternal (mother's mother's mother's ...) line. \u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cstrong>\u003cbr>\n\u003cem>This Y chromosome haplogroup is inconsistent with Native American ancestry along the paternal (father's father's father's ...) line.\u003c/em>\u003c/strong>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>I suppose this says what I just said but I am not sure how many people would really appreciate the limitations of mtDNA and Y chromosome data from this explanation. There wasn’t a link to a more explicit discussion of the limitations of this sort of testing and there wasn’t anything I could see from a quick glance at the ancestry part of the site either. An explicit explanation would be good or maybe a figure like this one:\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gene-tree.jpg\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/09/gene-tree.jpg\" alt=\"gene-tree\" title=\"gene-tree\" width=\"400\" height=\"150\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-3621\">\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>To me, this drives home the point that there is a whole lot of missing ancestry. It might help if they had some sort of family tree app where you could indicate as much as you know about family relationships. Once you’ve inputted the data, it would spit out what tests results would be useful to look at.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So the mtDNA and Y chromosome test results are of little use to me in this quest. (And of little use to me in general as it confirms my pasty whiteness.) Next blog I’ll deal with the rest of my DNA and what that can and can’t tell me about my great, great grandma.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> 37.33161018170129 -121.89019918441772\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/quest/3620/genetic-tests-when-no-means-maybe-part-1","authors":["6177"],"categories":["quest_4","quest_12"],"tags":["quest_43","quest_159","quest_686","quest_848","quest_1197","quest_1890","quest_2907","quest_3195"],"label":"quest"},"quest_1057":{"type":"posts","id":"quest_1057","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"quest","id":"1057","score":null,"sort":[1231465662000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"traveling-dna","title":"Traveling DNA","publishDate":1231465662,"format":"standard","headTitle":"QUEST | KQED Science","labelTerm":{"site":"quest"},"content":"\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"left\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/01/cyanobacteria.jpg\">\u003cem>This photomicrograph shows Cyanobacteria (green) found\u003cbr>in a common pond. Image source: \u003ca href=\"http://flickr.com/photos/w_lanier/\">Wayne Lanier\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2008/12/22/those-marvelous-mitochondria/\">Last blog\u003c/a> I talked about mitochondria. These are the parts of a cell that ultimately turn our food into energy. They also have a very interesting past.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A billion years ago or so, mitochondria were free living bacteria. Then our ancestors hijacked them and now they do our bidding. And mitochondria aren't the only cells that got hijacked. So did the chloroplast’s ancestors. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chloroplasts are the part of a plant cell that turns sunshine into sugar. Every green plant that we’ve looked at has them. And chloroplasts were almost certainly once free living cyanobacteria.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both mitochondria and chloroplasts still have many bacterial qualities including having their own DNA. But they don't have a lot of their old DNA left. Most of it has migrated to where the rest of our DNA is kept—the nucleus. Or at least that's the theory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Do scientists have any proof that DNA can move in a cell from compartment to compartment? As a matter of fact they do. At least with the chloroplast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scientists used their ability to put DNA specifically into a chloroplast or mitochondrion to design an experiment to look for cells where DNA had migrated. What they did was put some DNA into a chloroplast that could only be read in the nucleus. (Remember, chloroplasts and mitochondria are different enough that nuclear DNA doesn't work there and vice versa.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The DNA they put in made the plant resistant to a poison IF the DNA could be read. One way the plant could survive was if the DNA they put in the chloroplast ended up moving from there to the nucleus. And it did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, it was pretty common in their experiment. The DNA moved in something like 1 in 16,000 pollen cells. A rate like this suggests that, for example, different cells on the same leaf might have different amounts of chloroplast DNA in their nuclei.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So DNA can move from the chloroplast to the nucleus. And probably from the mitochondrion to the nucleus too. The evidence is less direct for this but there is plenty of DNA in the nuclei of lots of different plants and animals that looks very mitochondrion-like. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This all fits in with our understanding that DNA is not as stable as a lot of people think. DNA changes between generations and within an organism. Chromosomes can get rearranged, genes copied or deleted, small DNA changes can happen and who knows what else. And these changes are a big part of the motor that drives evolution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> 37.332 -121.903\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":"A billion years ago or so, mitochondria were free living bacteria. Then our ancestors hijacked them and now they do our bidding. And mitochondria aren't the only cells that got hijacked.","status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1316920642,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":13,"wordCount":449},"headData":{"title":"Traveling DNA | KQED","description":"A billion years ago or so, mitochondria were free living bacteria. Then our ancestors hijacked them and now they do our bidding. And mitochondria aren't the only cells that got hijacked.","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Traveling DNA","datePublished":"2009-01-09T01:47:42.000Z","dateModified":"2011-09-25T03:17:22.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"1057 http://www.kqed.org/quest/blog/?p=1057","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2009/01/08/traveling-dna/","disqusTitle":"Traveling DNA","path":"/quest/1057/traveling-dna","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cp>\u003cspan class=\"left\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2009/01/cyanobacteria.jpg\">\u003cem>This photomicrograph shows Cyanobacteria (green) found\u003cbr>in a common pond. Image source: \u003ca href=\"http://flickr.com/photos/w_lanier/\">Wayne Lanier\u003c/a>\u003c/em>\u003c/span>\u003ca href=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2008/12/22/those-marvelous-mitochondria/\">Last blog\u003c/a> I talked about mitochondria. These are the parts of a cell that ultimately turn our food into energy. They also have a very interesting past.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>A billion years ago or so, mitochondria were free living bacteria. Then our ancestors hijacked them and now they do our bidding. And mitochondria aren't the only cells that got hijacked. So did the chloroplast’s ancestors. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Chloroplasts are the part of a plant cell that turns sunshine into sugar. Every green plant that we’ve looked at has them. And chloroplasts were almost certainly once free living cyanobacteria.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Both mitochondria and chloroplasts still have many bacterial qualities including having their own DNA. But they don't have a lot of their old DNA left. Most of it has migrated to where the rest of our DNA is kept—the nucleus. Or at least that's the theory.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Do scientists have any proof that DNA can move in a cell from compartment to compartment? As a matter of fact they do. At least with the chloroplast.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Scientists used their ability to put DNA specifically into a chloroplast or mitochondrion to design an experiment to look for cells where DNA had migrated. What they did was put some DNA into a chloroplast that could only be read in the nucleus. (Remember, chloroplasts and mitochondria are different enough that nuclear DNA doesn't work there and vice versa.)\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The DNA they put in made the plant resistant to a poison IF the DNA could be read. One way the plant could survive was if the DNA they put in the chloroplast ended up moving from there to the nucleus. And it did.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>In fact, it was pretty common in their experiment. The DNA moved in something like 1 in 16,000 pollen cells. A rate like this suggests that, for example, different cells on the same leaf might have different amounts of chloroplast DNA in their nuclei.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>So DNA can move from the chloroplast to the nucleus. And probably from the mitochondrion to the nucleus too. The evidence is less direct for this but there is plenty of DNA in the nuclei of lots of different plants and animals that looks very mitochondrion-like. \u003c/p>\n\u003cp>This all fits in with our understanding that DNA is not as stable as a lot of people think. DNA changes between generations and within an organism. Chromosomes can get rearranged, genes copied or deleted, small DNA changes can happen and who knows what else. And these changes are a big part of the motor that drives evolution.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp> 37.332 -121.903\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/quest/1057/traveling-dna","authors":["6177"],"categories":["quest_4","quest_12"],"tags":["quest_267","quest_588","quest_748","quest_848","quest_1032","quest_1843","quest_1890","quest_2020"],"label":"quest"},"quest_990":{"type":"posts","id":"quest_990","meta":{"index":"posts_1591205157","site":"quest","id":"990","score":null,"sort":[1229974060000]},"guestAuthors":[],"slug":"those-marvelous-mitochondria","title":"Those Marvelous Mitochondria","publishDate":1229974060,"format":"standard","headTitle":"QUEST | KQED Science","labelTerm":{"site":"quest"},"content":"\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2008/12/mito.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This former free living bacterium now supplies our cells their energy.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Current theories hold that life began on Earth around 3.5 billion years ago. About a billion years ago, a single celled beast engulfed and absorbed another single celled creature. We are all descended from that hijacking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The hijacked cell has over time become the mitochondrion. This organelle is responsible for making our energy. But it still has the marks of having once been a free living bacterium.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First off, mitochondria still have remnants of their old DNA. There isn’t much there in human mitochondria but there is enough to still get us into trouble. \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=90\">A big part of aging\u003c/a> might be due to damage to this \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=165\">mitochondrial DNA\u003c/a> (mtDNA). Some genetic diseases are also caused by mutations in mtDNA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The DNA in mitochondria is also much more like bacterial DNA compared to the rest of our DNA. In fact, the mitochondrion has its own bacteria-like machinery for reading its DNA. This means that mitochondria can’t read the genes in our nucleus and vice versa. Mitochondria are so similar to bacteria that some antibiotics can damage them too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even though it was once free living, the mitochondrion doesn’t have a lot of its original DNA left. Over time, most of our mitochondrion’s original genes have traveled to the nucleus. These genes now work in the nucleus to make most of a mitochondrion’s proteins which are then transported back to the mitochondrion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>[ad fullwidth]\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After all these years, human mtDNA is now only around 16,000 bases long and has only 37 genes left. This is a far cry from even the simplest of bacteria, Mycoplasma genitalium, with its 582,970 bases and 521 genes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Humans are not unique in having mitochondria. Every plant, animal, and fungus cell in the world that has been looked at has mitochondria. But the DNA in these mitochondria is all wildly different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The size of mtDNA can range from just 6000 base pairs all the way up to 2 million base pairs. Sometimes the mtDNA is a circle like ours. Sometimes it is spread out over lots of little circles. Sometimes it is one long, linear piece of DNA. Sometimes it is lots and lots of little pieces of linear DNA. And sometimes it is too weird to describe in a short blog like this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mitochondria from different species also have different numbers of genes. Some species have mitochondria with nearly 100 genes. While others have as few as 5.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With up to 2000 mitochondria/cell, evolution has had a free hand in tinkering with mtDNA. If a mutation or change in mtDNA causes a problem, that mitochondrion simply goes away. If there is some advantage to the new DNA structure, it is free to sweep through and take over. It is amazing what evolution has done to this bacterium!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course, evolution has made the mitochondrion a shell of what it once was. But we could argue that it is one of the most successful beasts ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It has gone from humble bacterium to being part of every eukaryote in the world. If humans die out, mitochondria will still be around somewhere else. Mitochondria will outlive us all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More information on mitochondrial genomes: \u003ca href=\"http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tig.2003.10.012\">http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tig.2003.10.012\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n","blocks":[],"excerpt":null,"status":"publish","parent":0,"modified":1478825746,"stats":{"hasAudio":false,"hasVideo":false,"hasChartOrMap":false,"iframeSrcs":[],"hasGoogleForm":false,"hasGallery":false,"hasHearkenModule":false,"hasPolis":false,"paragraphCount":15,"wordCount":562},"headData":{"title":"Those Marvelous Mitochondria | KQED","description":"Current theories hold that life began on Earth around 3.5 billion years ago. About a billion years ago, a single celled beast engulfed and absorbed another single celled creature. We are all descended from that hijacking. The hijacked cell has over time become the mitochondrion. This organelle is responsible for making our energy. But it","ogTitle":"","ogDescription":"","ogImgId":"","twTitle":"","twDescription":"","twImgId":"","schema":{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"Article","headline":"Those Marvelous Mitochondria","datePublished":"2008-12-22T19:27:40.000Z","dateModified":"2016-11-11T00:55:46.000Z","image":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/KQED-OG-Image@1x.png"}},"disqusIdentifier":"990 http://www.kqed.org/quest/blog/?p=990","disqusUrl":"https://ww2.kqed.org/quest/2008/12/22/those-marvelous-mitochondria/","disqusTitle":"Those Marvelous Mitochondria","path":"/quest/990/those-marvelous-mitochondria","audioTrackLength":null,"parsedContent":[{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003cfigure class=\"wp-caption alignnone\" style=\"max-width: 300px\">\u003cimg src=\"http://ww2.kqed.org/quest/wp-content/uploads/sites/39/2008/12/mito.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\">\u003cfigcaption class=\"wp-caption-text\">This former free living bacterium now supplies our cells their energy.\u003c/figcaption>\u003c/figure>\n\u003cp>Current theories hold that life began on Earth around 3.5 billion years ago. About a billion years ago, a single celled beast engulfed and absorbed another single celled creature. We are all descended from that hijacking.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The hijacked cell has over time become the mitochondrion. This organelle is responsible for making our energy. But it still has the marks of having once been a free living bacterium.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>First off, mitochondria still have remnants of their old DNA. There isn’t much there in human mitochondria but there is enough to still get us into trouble. \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=90\">A big part of aging\u003c/a> might be due to damage to this \u003ca href=\"http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=165\">mitochondrial DNA\u003c/a> (mtDNA). Some genetic diseases are also caused by mutations in mtDNA.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The DNA in mitochondria is also much more like bacterial DNA compared to the rest of our DNA. In fact, the mitochondrion has its own bacteria-like machinery for reading its DNA. This means that mitochondria can’t read the genes in our nucleus and vice versa. Mitochondria are so similar to bacteria that some antibiotics can damage them too.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Even though it was once free living, the mitochondrion doesn’t have a lot of its original DNA left. Over time, most of our mitochondrion’s original genes have traveled to the nucleus. These genes now work in the nucleus to make most of a mitochondrion’s proteins which are then transported back to the mitochondrion.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\u003c/div>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}},{"type":"component","content":"","name":"ad","attributes":{"named":{"label":"fullwidth"},"numeric":["fullwidth"]}},{"type":"contentString","content":"\u003cdiv class=\"post-body\">\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>After all these years, human mtDNA is now only around 16,000 bases long and has only 37 genes left. This is a far cry from even the simplest of bacteria, Mycoplasma genitalium, with its 582,970 bases and 521 genes.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Humans are not unique in having mitochondria. Every plant, animal, and fungus cell in the world that has been looked at has mitochondria. But the DNA in these mitochondria is all wildly different.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>The size of mtDNA can range from just 6000 base pairs all the way up to 2 million base pairs. Sometimes the mtDNA is a circle like ours. Sometimes it is spread out over lots of little circles. Sometimes it is one long, linear piece of DNA. Sometimes it is lots and lots of little pieces of linear DNA. And sometimes it is too weird to describe in a short blog like this.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Mitochondria from different species also have different numbers of genes. Some species have mitochondria with nearly 100 genes. While others have as few as 5.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>With up to 2000 mitochondria/cell, evolution has had a free hand in tinkering with mtDNA. If a mutation or change in mtDNA causes a problem, that mitochondrion simply goes away. If there is some advantage to the new DNA structure, it is free to sweep through and take over. It is amazing what evolution has done to this bacterium!\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>Of course, evolution has made the mitochondrion a shell of what it once was. But we could argue that it is one of the most successful beasts ever.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>It has gone from humble bacterium to being part of every eukaryote in the world. If humans die out, mitochondria will still be around somewhere else. Mitochondria will outlive us all.\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>\u003c/p>\n\u003cp>More information on mitochondrial genomes: \u003ca href=\"http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tig.2003.10.012\">http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.tig.2003.10.012\u003c/a>\u003c/p>\n\n\u003c/div>\u003c/p>","attributes":{"named":{},"numeric":[]}}],"link":"/quest/990/those-marvelous-mitochondria","authors":["6177"],"categories":["quest_4","quest_12"],"tags":["quest_278","quest_848","quest_1026","quest_1192","quest_1197","quest_1844","quest_1890"],"label":"quest"}},"programsReducer":{"possible":{"id":"possible","title":"Possible","info":"Possible is hosted by entrepreneur Reid Hoffman and writer Aria Finger. Together in Possible, Hoffman and Finger lead enlightening discussions about building a brighter collective future. The show features interviews with visionary guests like Trevor Noah, Sam Altman and Janette Sadik-Khan. Possible paints an optimistic portrait of the world we can create through science, policy, business, art and our shared humanity. It asks: What if everything goes right for once? How can we get there? 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You can also visit the MindShift website for episodes and supplemental blog posts or tweet us \u003ca href=\"https://twitter.com/MindShiftKQED\">@MindShiftKQED\u003c/a> or visit us at \u003ca href=\"/mindshift\">MindShift.KQED.org\u003c/a>","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Mindshift-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"KQED MindShift: How We Will Learn","officialWebsiteLink":"/mindshift/","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"2"},"link":"/podcasts/mindshift","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mindshift-podcast/id1078765985","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vS1FJTkM1NzY0NjAwNDI5","npr":"https://www.npr.org/podcasts/464615685/mind-shift-podcast","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/kqed/stories-teachers-share","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0MxSpNYZKNprFLCl7eEtyx"}},"morning-edition":{"id":"morning-edition","title":"Morning Edition","info":"\u003cem>Morning Edition\u003c/em> takes listeners around the country and the world with multi-faceted stories and commentaries every weekday. 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On Our Watch brings listeners into the rooms where officers are questioned and witnesses are interrogated to find out who this system is really protecting. Is it the officers, or the public they've sworn to serve?","imageSrc":"https://cdn.kqed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/On-Our-Watch-Podcast-Tile-703x703-1.jpg","imageAlt":"On Our Watch from NPR and KQED","officialWebsiteLink":"/podcasts/onourwatch","meta":{"site":"news","source":"kqed","order":"1"},"link":"/podcasts/onourwatch","subscribe":{"apple":"https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1567098962","google":"https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5ucHIub3JnLzUxMDM2MC9wb2RjYXN0LnhtbD9zYz1nb29nbGVwb2RjYXN0cw","npr":"https://rpb3r.app.goo.gl/onourwatch","spotify":"https://open.spotify.com/show/0OLWoyizopu6tY1XiuX70x","tuneIn":"https://tunein.com/radio/On-Our-Watch-p1436229/","stitcher":"https://www.stitcher.com/show/on-our-watch","rss":"https://feeds.npr.org/510360/podcast.xml"}},"on-the-media":{"id":"on-the-media","title":"On The Media","info":"Our weekly podcast explores how the media 'sausage' is made, casts an incisive eye on fluctuations in the marketplace of ideas, and examines threats to the freedom of information and expression in America and abroad. 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